S1, E1: The Woman Reinventing One of Europe’s Oldest Hospitality Brands

In the inaugural episode of View From Afar—a podcast by the travel industry, for the travel industry—we hear from Barbara Muckermann, the new CEO of the historic Kempinski Hotels—and the first female leader in the company’s 128-year history.

Transcript

Jennifer Flowers, host: Welcome to View From Afar, a podcast by the travel industry for the travel industry.

I’m Jennifer Flowers, Afar’s senior deputy editor. I’ve spent my whole life in the hotel world, and it’s a topic I also currently cover for Afar. So it’s fitting that we’re launching this new series with an interview from one of the women in hospitality I’ve looked up to for a while now, Barbara Muckermann, who spent 25 years as a mover and shaker in the luxury cruise industry.

I recently interviewed Barbara for a story about women in the hospitality sector (the link is in the show notes) because she recently made waves as the first female CEO of Kempinski Hotels, the 128-year-old global company that was born in Europe.

I sat down with Barbara to discuss what’s in store for this historic hotel group now that she’s at the helm—and spoiler alert, Kempinski is poised for a reinvention.

Jennifer [in interview]: It is so good to see you. So catch me up on the last few months. I mean, I believe you’re the sixth CEO in Kempinski’s history and the first woman. When I heard that you took on the role, I was so excited for this brand. And I just want to hear about, like, what excited you about it? Like, when you heard about this opportunity, what made you say, “Yes, this is for me?”

Barbara Muckermann: As you know, Jennifer, we’ve known each other many years. I felt that when the opportunity came in, I’m like, “This is a unique opportunity really in, in the history of hospitality.” Kempinski is the oldest hospitality brand in the world. It was actually founded in 1862—even if in our tagline we have 1897, that’s when we opened our first hotel—but actually, where the company started, it started by blending for the first time entertainment and restaurants. So if you think of the cabaret of Liza Minnelli, that started at Kempinski. If you think about the first resort in the world, it was done by Kempinski. So there are so many innovations in the history of this company that I’m like, “OK, when do you really get the chance of being the custodian of a brand with such a history?” So this was the first thing that, of course, excited me.

And then you really look at the rest of the company and you realize that for the first time in many years, there’s a really stable shareholding, there is a stable leadership at the helm from the shareholder perspective.

And then the company is financially very sound and is big enough to foster change because we have 24,000 [employees] around the world and 81 hotels. Also because we are the only, um, big brand that, you know, [has] such a history, that’s privately owned and still has the agility to do things because, as we know very well, once you are in a corporation, it works like a machine, but it is a completely different dynamic. It’s very—it’s more difficult and slower to innovate.

Well, here we really have a white canvas. We have the money. We have the size. And we have this history. What else do you want?

Jennifer: That is amazing. I mean, if you just count, like, the [Hotel] Adlon, like, all these different places have so much history to them. And so we were always kind of, like, waiting for that moment where the brand was going to be poised for the next chapter. And now here, as you’re saying, there’s, there’s financial backing, there’s new leadership. There’s this sort of new, reinvigorated chapter. So tell me more. I think I read somewhere, you’re hoping to stabilize the brand after a lot of upheaval and to move to pure luxury. Is that about right? And if you, if that’s right, can you explain to me what that means?

Barbara: So as you know, I mean, in the hotel industry, there’s no real secret sauce, and everyone is stretching the brand a little. I think the first point for Kempinski is to acknowledge that in the past, the brand has been stretched a little too much. So we’re working with our owners—who have been, I have to say, amazing—to really make sure that all of the Kempinski hotels that will stay in the future of the portfolio are to the level that they should be, you know, for a brand that deserves to reclaim its place in the luxury arena.

If you look again at the history of the brand, history always happened at Kempinski, and Kempinski has always been the first choice for royals, diplomats, and celebrities. I mean, we had Einstein living for years at the Adlon. You know, we built a separate entrance at the for Mick Jagger. We have been the house hosting the kings of Bavaria for, you know, almost 200 years. So all of these things could really give a very specific space in history that we believe we can bring back, and will.

Jennifer: Oh, that is so exciting. And where, so what should Afar readers know in terms of the next step? Are there particular properties that you think truly embody what Kempinski is about right now, leading the brand into the future? Barbara: So I would like to talk about a property that we actually signed two weeks ago. The site, which is considered the living room of Munich, is a historical hotel on Maximilianstrasse [a luxury shopping avenue], [and] has been the Royal House of Bavaria hotel for over 200 years.

But then [Prince] Luitpold of Bavaria gave us a call and said, “I would actually like you to manage my private residence at Nymphenburg.” Now, uh, when you go to Munich, I absolutely want you to come and visit this. So Nymphenburg is like Versailles. So it’s the Munich version of Versailles. It is this beautiful palace, 20 minutes just outside of the city center.

And in the grounds of the palace, there is this private residence of Prince Luitpold. Now, when I went and visited this residence, I’m like, “This is where the past of the history of Kempinski will really draw the direction for the future.” Because now here you are in Munich and you’ve seen the beautiful gardens of these residences, a lot of amazing majolica figures, from the figura dell’arte [porcelain figures made by Nymphenburg Porcelain Factory]—so beautiful actors, to incredible parrots with incredible colors. So I asked to Prince Luitpold, “Why are these human-sized porcelains all around the gardens?”

And he’s like, “Well, you know, my great-great-grandfather, in the winters of Munich, he loved to see colorful parrots with the snow.” And as such, they devised this porcelain, which is done in a specific way and doesn’t break when it freezes.

Jennifer: Oh my goodness.

Barbara: I’m like, there is nothing more useless, totally unneeded, than a parrot in a snowy garden—that’s what luxury is all about. Luxury is about this beautiful, eccentric, aesthetical beauty that is absolutely useless. And that’s where I’m like, “This is where the past needs to blend with the future.”

Jennifer: The story of these parrots goes back generations. Like, this is someone who really, this is someone’s—their heritage, and you have access to it as a traveler. And I can think of an American traveler who comes over to Europe and gets to walk, walk through these, these halls of someone’s home for generations. It sounds incredible. It sounds like such a singular experience. My goodness.

Barbara: And, you know, not only if they will stay at Nymphenburg, they will have access to the porcelain factory, which still doesn’t use electricity because they’re still using the nearby river to propel all of the energy they need. You know, they will be able to get the handmade parrots, and there are, there’s even, you know, like that Damien Hirst porcelains in the house because of a collaboration between the prince and Damien Hirst.

Jennifer: It sounds, like, centuries-old yet modern, yet like all the things that sort of the modern traveler wants to feel when they’re in Europe is sort of like the sense of the past and the present and the future. And how exciting. I’ll meet you there. That sounds amazing.

Barbara: It’s a date, Jennifer.

Jennifer: When does that open? Is there a projected time, or is it already under Kempinski operation or . . . ?

Barbara: So it’s already under Kempinski operation. We are officially going to launch it in May. We need a couple of months to get all the right video footage that this incredible residence really deserves. But this is really showing what we are calling internally “past forward,” uh, which is how we want to link the history with the future of the brand.

Jennifer: That is so exciting. I’ll see you in May, then. And tell me, so just before we move on, to what, what does your expansion vision look like? Where do you think the key areas are for you?

Barbara: In terms of development, we are going to focus, in the first phase, a lot in Europe, because Europe is our home. And I’m still missing, I mean, we don’t have any hotels in France, you know, we, we have just one flag[ship] in Italy. So there’s a huge opportunity in these areas of the world to really grow our footprint and, and [in] Germany as well. I would love to find some, some heritage homes in Germany.

Jennifer: How amazing. So I wanna dive a little bit into women in hospitality. And as I said earlier, you are the sixth CEO in the brand’s history, and the first female only—after only males before you. I mean, I mean, you’re not just, like, a visionary for the company. You’re also setting a huge example for the rest of the hospitality industry. I mean, I want to just talk a little bit about why it’s important that you’re a woman stepping into this role, and why is it important to you, to Kempinski, and just to the hotel world in general?

Barbara: Well, I think, Jennifer, that the first thing, I could not find another female enterprise CEO on top of a hotel company, and this, for me, is very sad because I’m also coming from the cruise industry, where instead, if you recall, there were multiple women president, and there still are.

Today, the hotel industry, uh, I was surprised to discover is even more male-dominated than actually other more new[er] industry, like the cruise industry. This is a huge opportunity, and it really also doesn’t make sense in how the industry is changing, I think, because as we know, we see more and more leaders coming from commercial. So it is really strange to see how such a small number of females raised to the ranks of the, of the hotel industry, which was for me, very surprising.

Jennifer: Wow, that is, that is quite surprising. Like, why is the hotel world still so unbalanced compared to, like, as you were saying, the cruise industry? Can you talk a little, maybe a little bit about the challenges you face as a woman in the hotel industry, or you could even talk about the cruise industry too, if there’s any connection there?

Barbara: Being completely honest, I always thought that being a woman was, uh, was actually an advantage. And I would say it is for two reasons. Uh, one, you know, it gets a lot of the psychology of leadership out of the way. If you take two alpha males, one of them needs to prevail. If you have a strong woman and an alpha male, it is much easier for them to work together. And this in the past has given me the privilege to work with very strong men without ever getting into a conflict. Which, honestly, is an advantage that you don’t have if you’re a strong man.

You know, on the other side, as sad as it is, there is still in the world a part of the male population that thinks that if you’re blond with blue eyes, you’re stupid, thanks to Barbie. And that is a huge advantage, because by the time they understand you have a brain, it’s too late. So, that’s another huge advantage.

Jennifer: Oh, that is really funny. So, I, I love that. Just how you’ve looked at the challenges as opportunities.

Barbara: And actually, you also see how, you know, the world is changing, because, I mean, Kempinski’s owned by Gulf interests, and they were the one who chose a woman, so it really shows how even some, let me say, cultural, um, stereotypes that we have are not happening anymore in the world. The world is changing.

Jennifer: Tell me what you think is still missing when it comes to supporting women in executive hospitality roles. Like, was it easy [or] difficult to recruit women into leadership positions?

Barbara: I think the biggest issue is that whenever you’re recruiting, you’re recruiting out of an existing pool. And if you’re in any industry, you see which is the prevailing specialty that creates CEOs or leaders. A lot of the growth comes from finance and operations, historically, in hospitality. We need to see more women in the middle ranks, uh, particularly in operations and finance, because that is really what will help foster the leaders of tomorrow.

Because at the end of the day, yes, you need to know what you’re doing, and it is great to have drive and natural leadership and have done your studies, but you also need the industry to give you the opportunity of learning on the job. So you need years of experience to become a leader.

And that is where I think it all needs to start by recruiting more, you know, more women in the ranks. I was incredibly proud to, for example, just promote Nadine as the first Omani woman to become a general manager of a hotel in our property of [Hotel] Muscat, because that’s how you create the future women leaders of tomorrow.

Jennifer: That is amazing. That’s—congratulations. That’s so exciting. And she’s, where is she from originally? Is she from Oman?

Barbara: She’s from Oman. She’s from Oman. She’s the first Omani woman ever to become a GM. And she was all over the press in Oman. And the fact that it’s such big news, on one side it’s sad, but on the other side, it really shows how you’re breaking the ceiling. And you need that, because then GMs become regional, head of region, and then they become, maybe, chief operating officers. So that’s how really you bring the women up in the ranks.

Jennifer: That’s great. Oh, that’s so exciting. I’m just, wow. That’s already, already, like, the, I’m sure you’re seeing it as, I don’t know. It’s interesting, like, as a woman, do you believe that, um, if there were more women at the helm of the hospitality industry, do you believe that we’d see changes in the guest experience or the workplace?

Barbara: Well, it’s funny, you know, one of the fantastic women we hired is Rasha Lababidi, who just started as chief product officer. And she was just giving a presentation to our board of directors, which is still 100 percent male, last week. And she gave this fantastic presentation about the future of the product at Kempinski, and at the end, everybody was impressed, and she just looks at them like, “You see, you needed a woman.”

Because it’s true that female touch, it’s a different perspective. You know, she was giving examples like “Women are shorter, and yet you have a lot of male architects designing and putting the makeup mirrors very high.” So this kind of detailing, you really need both sides to design the perfect future.

And if you are in the world of luxury, you really deserve the perfect product. Uh, you cannot just have a male design the same way that you kind of just have a female design. You need both because they’re two different users. They’re different case studies—that, you know, different cases. And we just use a suite in a different way.

Jennifer: Yeah, that’s absolutely true. I remember when the full-length mirror crisis happened in the hospitality industry, and there was a lot of noise around that. But it was just one, you know, a small thing, but a big thing in a lot of ways that, like, having representation in the room—and when people make these kinds of decisions, [it] actually does result in a better hospitality product for more people.

Is there anything I haven’t asked about Kempinski that you think would be important for our readers to know in the next year, in the next couple of years?

Barbara: I think that one of the biggest secrets is that most people don’t even know which Kempinski hotels are out there. So, you know, one of the things that I was the first to discover, for example, is that Kempinski is, is managing or owning some of the most amazing palaces around the world.

I mean, the Ciragan in Istanbul—I was there about a month ago, in the early February. It’s one of the most incredible hotels in the world. And we were having a meeting there, and it started snowing, and you could see the whole of the Bosphorus from this palace. And, and it was just amazing. And by the way, it absolutely cracks me up that another, you know, the five-star hotel next door actually is in the servant quarters of the palace. It just cracked me up, and it really shows this grandeur of the history of Kempinski that we can and should bring back, because most people don’t know about it.

Jennifer: Well, that’s, it’s interesting you bring that property up because one of our writers, Anya von Bremzen, she has a place in Istanbul, she goes there a lot. And I remember we were working on a feature together, and she was, she was telling me how that hotel is so important to Istanbul, like, it is a huge part of Istanbul culture. And I can imagine a lot of these Kempinski hotels, because they have such rich histories, that it’s not just for the people coming to those places, it’s also, like, you’re, you’re custodians of these rich cultural heritage buildings in these cities and in these destinations for, for people who live there. Um, can you tell me more about the role of Kempinski in, in local culture?

Barbara: Jennifer, to your point, I mean, the Ciragan is, is actually hosting more than 220 weddings a year because in Istanbul, and for Turkish culture, getting [a] wedding at the Kempinski Ciragan Palace is the ultimate option, like. And so the other one that I was surprised, just because I’m learning the culture is, for example, our hotel in Bangkok, the Siam, which is built on royal land, and it is a land of very important significance to the Thai people, is one of the biggest hits for everything that has to do with, you know, their arrival of children, you know, celebrations and weddings, because it’s royal land.

Many of these historical hotels are at the center of the city. And they have a historical significance that goes way beyond a hotel. Uh, when we were scouring the archives, uh, we found this, uh, interview of Angela Merkel, the former primary of Germany. And they asked her, “As an Eastern European, what was the culturally significant thing that happened after the unification that really, you know, made you understand that the world had changed?”

And she said, “I could finally go and eat oysters at the Kempinski without crossing the border.” So, it’s just, these are the points that really make you understand that history always happened at Kempinski.

Jennifer: I love that. My goodness. And it makes me think, too, that, just another question I have, because you’re coming from the cruise world: Are there any big differences in terms of how you’re looking at hospitality from a hotel perspective versus, like, cruise in the hospitality world?

Barbara: From a functional perspective, you know, ships are hotels which move. So, more complicated operations, but very similar. I would say there are two huge differences. One is in the directionality of the demand, because nobody ever showed up in port and said, “I want to take a cruise today.” It happens every day in hotels. So people show up and say, “Do you have a room for the night?” So it’s completely different the way you really manage demand and, let me say, the booking curve. So I think there’s a lot of learnings we can take from the cruise industry into the hotel industry.

On the other side, the hotel industry has the huge advantage of completely controlling the product because they’re purpose-built ships and you design them all. And I think that this helps a lot in creating a very unique and seamless guest experience. This is where I think we can, again, adopt some of this by, by, by modifying some of the current business model in [the] hospitality industry to give a more solid and better product to the consumers.

Jennifer: Fantastic. That’s awesome. And, uh, is there anything else I haven’t asked about women and hospitality that you think is really important if you, um—That’s one question. And part two would be if there’s anything you would advise to a young woman who is looking to get into the hospitality industry, what would your advice be?

Barbara: My advice would be, you know, really build on your strength and find great coping strategies for your weaknesses. Women are different than men. We can’t just expect that we become the same. So I think that one thing that is very important in every strategy, being from a company to your personal life, is always to understand what is coming as a strength by me being a woman. Which are the things I do better than a man?

And really lean on and build on those. Um, because it’s fine to be different, you know, the world needs diversity. You know, companies need a lot of different people. That’s how companies become strong. That’s, that, that’s how you build the magic of amazing brands is by a lot of diverse brains working together on it.

So, so there is—absolutely never strive to be what you’re not, but leverage instead on your strength. And sometimes as women, we feel like, “Oh, we should be better at that because men are typically good at that.” Forget about that. There’s a ton of stuff that you’re better at. So work on that.

Jennifer: That is fantastic advice to just lean on your strengths and think about what you bring to the table. It feels like universally good advice for anyone, men and women alike.

Barbara: And don’t be afraid of being different. It’s fine.

Jennifer: I love that, Barbara.

Barbara: Imagine what a boring world if it were all to be the same.

Jennifer: Thanks for joining this inaugural episode of View From Afar. In the show notes, you’ll find Kempinski’s website, Barbara’s social media handles, and my story on women hoteliers. Join us in two weeks for another conversation with another fantastic woman who has shaped the hospitality industry: Maud Bailey, the CEO of Accor’s Sofitel, Sofitel Legend, MGallery, and Emblems brands.

Ready for more views from afar? Visit afar.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We’re @AfarMedia. If you enjoyed today’s exploration, I hope you’ll come back for more great stories. Subscribing always makes that easy. And be sure to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platforms. It helps other travelers find it.

This has been View From Afar, a production of Afar Media. The podcast is produced by Aislyn Greene and Nikki Galteland, with special assistance from Jennifer Flowers.