S5, E15: Unpacked, Five Questions: Why This Photographer Spent Four Weeks in the Egyptian Desert

Welcome to Unpacked, Five Questions, a podcast that takes you behind the scenes of one great travel story. In this episode, executive editor Katherine LaGrave sits down with documentary photographer Nathalie Mohadjer, whose images of the desert oasis of Siwa appear in Afar’s winter 2026 issue.

For four weeks in Siwa, an ancient town some 450 miles from Cairo, Nathalie traded the typical three-day shoot for a slower kind of immersion — sharing breakfasts in the old town, spending afternoons with a local woman named Fatima, and bathing in a hidden cold spring with her family’s kids.

She talks with Katherine about photographing a community where Siwan women are rarely seen by outsiders, why patience and respect matter more than the camera itself, and how losing your sense of time in the desert can change the way you see a place. She also shares advice for travelers heading to Siwa — and the one moment she chose not to capture.

Transcript

Katherine LaGrave: Welcome to Unpacked Five Questions, a podcast that takes you behind the scenes of one great travel story. I’m Katherine LaGrave, executive editor at Afar. I’ve loved magazines since I was a kid, and not just the stories in the magazine, but the stories about how those stories got made, too. Now, decades later, that’s the purpose of this whole podcast: speaking with writers and photographers who have an ear for incredible travel experiences about how their print stories came to life. Nathalie Mohadjer is one of those people.

A German-Iranian documentary photographer based in Paris, Nathalie has worked for publications such as The New York Times, Monocle, and Le Monde. She and I collaborated on an Afar feature story about Oman in 2023, and I loved her eye for detail, so I was delighted to work with her again for our Winter 2026 issue. She shot the desert oasis of Siwa, Egypt, and her images of its dunes and residents have stayed with me since.

I sat down with Nathalie to learn more about what drew her to Siwa, and to get her take on how we can all make better connections with place and take better photos in the process too.

Hi Nathalie, so nice to be speaking with you today.

Nathalie Mohadjer: Hi, Katherine, thank you so much for having me here.

Katherine: So your story is about the ancient town of Siwa, which is about 450 miles from Cairo. And it has this incredibly rich history. Why were you interested in visiting?

Nathalie: Yes, it was in winter 2023, in December. And actually a very old friend of mine who’s the father of one of my very old friends, he’s retired now and he’s a journalist. He invited me to go there because, um, he always knew that I’m interested in human stories and, and kind of social studies in places which are like a bit unknown. So just to, to check them out and to see the vibes. And he invited me to go with him. So I stayed there for almost four weeks together with him. He already knew the place and he knew some people. So this was amazing because through him, I really got to know the culture and really details, which you normally don’t get when you go there, because normally most people stay for three or four days. Some tourists also stay for a week maybe. But I really got to dig deep into the social life for weeks.

Katherine: That’s amazing. How nice to be able to immerse yourself, as you said. Did you have a typical day when you were there? Like, walk us through what one of your days might have looked like.

Nathalie: We always woke up around eight and the first thing we did, we went to the old town Siwa Shali to have breakfast, a quite big breakfast, and then we already always had a plan like either to visit some sites, like cultural sites where I took pictures or to meet people like he has a lot of friends who are doing guides.

One of his oldest friends was Khalid, and he really showed us around. He also has a beautiful garden and we visited his garden several times and they were cooking for us. And then in the afternoon, I always had an appointment with one of the Siwa women, which is quite rare because normally you don’t really see the women. I mean, there are lots of women working in Siwa, but most of them are from Cairo, Alexandria, young people, and they’re super open to the world. But the Siwan women are quite, um, you don’t really see them actually. So the society is a bit, uh, separated in a way. It’s kind of an open society, but on the other hand, it’s like really closed.

So by accident, I met this woman, and almost every day afterwards I went to her place. So I went in, I came into her house, I met her whole family. They were cooking for me, and I spent quite a lot of time with them in the afternoons, also swimming with them and all these kind of things, which was crazy. Like with the kids, not with her. She was not swimming with me.

Katherine: But is this Fatima?

Nathalie: Yes, exactly. That’s Fatima.

Katherine: Yeah. So tell us a little bit about how you met her and what happened.

Nathalie: It was beautiful. In Egypt, generally, people are super open and they just invite you to their house. In Siwa as a tourist you don’t like? I already said, it’s like it’s a little bit more difficult to meet the women. And then I knew that and I was going for a walk alone in Old Siwa Shali, you know, the ruins and the outer in the center, which is—which is beautiful. And suddenly there was this woman waving from a window, and she saw me and I was waving back. And she was like, what are you doing here? And I’m like, in broken English, kind of it was Arab-English. And I’m like, well, I’m taking pictures. What are you doing here? Like, I live here, I guess so, and she’s like, do you want to come up? And I’m like, oh yes, of course. So I went up and first, I mean, she invited me and then they were doing some henna on my hands, which is quite typical to earn some money. And of course, I gave her some money, like for the henna and everything. But then like the next day I came by again and I met, I saw her again and she said, you want to come up again? I was like, oh yeah, with pleasure. And then I started to meet her family slowly. And, um, she could do that because she was living on her own with her mother. She had no husband anymore because her husband left her and she was taking care of her sister’s kids and because they died in a car accident like her sister and her husband died in a car accident. So she had, like Muhammad and Shahrukh living with her and another girl. I met her once. I forgot her name actually, like the oldest sister, she was already married. And so this is it came to that like this. And it was beautiful.

Katherine: What a different way, a special way to learn about a place right through the people. And you do have so many people in your photographs and I love, you know, what we show in the story, which is some amazing detail shots of the place and also of the people. And I’m curious, when you’re traveling and you want to photograph someone, how do you approach it?

Nathalie: I am patient, for example, at Fatima’s place, I did not take pictures right away. I mean, I have my camera, but when I first meet them, I think it’s very important to treat people, especially with other cultures, you really have to be there with a lot of respect and be very slow, and you can’t just go in there and take pictures immediately. Oh, this is a beautiful wall. And how beautiful is that? And like, shoot them, literally shoot them kind of because photography is a beautiful way to meet people, but it can be also very aggressive and very intrusive. So you have to be very delicate with it. So the people also meet you as a person, and then you can slowly start taking pictures because they can—they tell you almost like, hey, you have a camera, you can use it. It’s almost in that way. It’s better this way than the other way around, actually. And then you can start really get into this private life.

I mean, I shot some very private scenes which are normally—the Siwa women, you’re not allowed to show their faces, which I completely respected with Fatima. And we did a lot of shoots with her, but she was always covering her face. And I kind of became like the kind of a story around it, because I think it’s an important part to really see that even inside, she doesn’t want to show her face. And of course, I respect it. Shahrukh was different because she was not 18 years old yet, and she had this really fancy hats and she had her phone and Instagram. We are still friends on Instagram, you know, and but I’m actually waiting also for the moment. If she may get married, then maybe this will kind of disappear, which is also part of that culture. So, but maybe not. You know, it depends.

Katherine: Mm-hmm. And you travel a lot. How is photographing a place for work, for an assignment, different than how you photograph on vacation? Do you, I guess, is the first question.

Nathalie: Ah. So I’m very bad in shooting when I’m on vacation. I actually almost do not shoot. And my family is quite annoyed by that. So I’m always like, maybe I should shoot some more. But um, I’m not a, a phone-picture person. I can’t really do it. It’s really, I have to force myself to take pictures with my phone, which of course is the most convenient way to get around. And if I take my camera with me, it kind of clicks on. And then I’m just like having another point of view. I’m seeing things differently there, I’m in work mode. And I shut kind of off, which is very good for me while I’m doing it professionally, but maybe not as good when I’m with my family, because then I wander off and I see a lot of stuff and they want to go the other way, you know? So it’s — I’ve never managed to put these two things together. I’ve done a little bit like a series once in Italy about my kids and ice cream. And so they’re really cool shots like on, on analog film. And, but it’s, uh, I don’t normally do that a lot.

Katherine: No, it’s a hard balance. Yeah. Different mode.

Nathalie: Yeah. I love people who can do that. I know I have a lot of photography friends and they do it, but then they also, well, they do it, but they also make kind of a series out of it. I mean, I think almost every photographer kind of then like, look, there’s this, uh, photography vacation series, which kind of is not only vacation. Mm-hmm.

Katherine: Yeah. It’s mixing your work. So in Siwa for four weeks, how did your understanding of the place change in that time? Like when you left, what were your feelings about it versus coming into it for the first time and not really knowing anything?

Nathalie: When I first came, with the desert, I love the desert, though, but, uh, like you have dust everywhere and you have to get used to the dust. But after a week it was, it became so normal with me, like having the sand everywhere and, uh, like on your feet and it’s in the air, you know, the sand is in the air. And when I went back, I really missed that. I was really, really happy in this great sand sea, just completely lost in this place, which is also—it makes you feel time differently. You, you kind of lose your sense for time, even if you feel it’s winter. I mean, it’s hot during the day and it gets cold in the evening, which is also amazing, like being in the sand in the desert and it gets cold. It’s really fascinating. Um, yeah, I missed that.

Katherine: You had mentioned that, that you felt in a way, you lost your sense of time, that it felt timeless. Is that mostly because of the weather or is there another factor?

Nathalie: I think I guess it’s also this traditional way. I mean, it’s isolated. You’re really disconnected from the rest, or even there are tourists coming and everything. And tourists, especially Egyptian tourists, of course. Now it opened up a bit to the rest of the world, but normally they’re mostly or they used to be mostly Egyptian tourists from Alexandria a lot, and also from Cairo. And, um, but still, this community in Siwa is quite special. It’s also, um, the Siwa people are very different towards the—they have their own culture. So it’s not Egyptians, they’re—Siwa. It’s different. They are like Berber tribes and a little bit of Tuareg. But traditionally it has completely its own culture. And you can feel that.

Katherine: Did you have a favorite experience?

Nathalie: Yes. One of my favorite experiences was, it was with Fatima when we took their donkey and we went to the whole town. We went outside near Fatima’s island. There are lots of tourists because there are also springs and there’s like a like a salt lake and everything. But then they went behind and this is actually the place where the Siwa people are bathing. And it was not a hot spring. It was a cold spring. But during the day it was amazing.

So Fatima, she was preparing lunch, she was cooking there. She made like a fire and cooking and she took everything with her. And I was bathing with Muhammad and, uh, like the 11-year-old boy. And it was, it was really, I felt like a kid and being in this hidden place. It’s like I would have never found this on my own. And nobody. I mean, there were no tourists. You had like this whole place for yourself. That was cool. That was, I think, my, my most, uh, precious moment.

Katherine: That sounds quite precious. How many photos did you take in those four weeks? Do you know?

Nathalie: No, I really can’t say. But generally, because I come from analog photography, I don’t shoot very fast. So even if I did this digitally, but it’s also a medium-format camera. So you can’t, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s quite heavy. So even this kind of like technique, um, can’t make you shoot like with a Canon, like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I’ve never done this. I would never do this. It’s a different style. So you only have one picture of this moment. Yeah, but it’s the perfect picture. Or maybe two or three. But then also, of course, when they — when they can be one hundred pictures, can also happen when a lot of things are happening; when they can only be ten pictures, depends.

Katherine: Is there a photograph you couldn’t take in Siwa? Whether you didn’t have your camera, you didn’t have time, I guess. Is there a moment that you would have liked to have photographed? And if so, what was it?

Nathalie: There was the moment which I was not allowed to photograph, when the whole family was in one room and there were like 20 people. And it kind of became like almost a little party and people were dancing and, and I would have loved to take my camera, but everybody was, of course, the women, they were not like—and then I would have disrupted the moment because like, the women would have had to put something on their face and the men would have been like stiff because they were always scared of me taking them, taking pictures inside, which was really funny also. They were like, oh, you know, the inside made them more insecure. It was like the outside and the inside was like really the women’s space. So they were like, oh.

Katherine: Yeah, it’s a private space.

Nathalie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I have it in my head. So it’s fine.

Katherine: Exactly. And that’s always the challenge I feel like, right? It’s like taking out a camera or a phone or something. It interrupts the moment and it changes the dynamic.

Nathalie: Yeah. There, it would have definitely changed the dynamic in other moments. And of course it is completely fine. And when the people get used to you, they also get used to the camera. And then they—especially after a few days, you know, after a week, they, it becomes more natural for them also to have me there with the camera. But yes, these moments where, you know, they, they tell you before, they don’t want to have their faces on the camera, then you don’t, you can’t take your camera out when they’re enjoying this moment. I also wanted to enjoy this moment with them. I mean, we were all dancing.

Katherine: Do you try and build that consideration of time into your assignments? Like, I imagine it must be really hard to go somewhere for just three or four days and have to capture people, right? Because so much of it is about building trust and relationship.

Nathalie: Yeah, it’s a different story then. And you can’t really dig into society if you do a shooting and a job for three or four days. It’s not a dig into society. And you it’s not as delicate. Of course, if I have assignments and I’m sent to a place and they already know they will be photographed, they’re prepared. I was hoping that I would meet some people there to get to dig into the real life of Siwa, but it could have also been that it‘s not happening. So, I mean, I was really lucky that it, that this worked out. It has always been taking like two to three weeks minimum and even longer. I mean, most photographers, when they shoot something about a place, they go there for several years. That takes sometimes years to really produce something very deep, like books or whatever. I would love to go back to Siwa.

Katherine: What advice do you have for travelers heading to Siwa?

Nathalie: To listen to the people there and relax, and don’t be afraid to talk to the people you meet on the street. They will not hurt you and they don’t want anything from you. They don’t. Don’t be scared. Even if they propose you something, you could buy this or that, you can always say no. Nobody is forcing you, but have a conversation with them because it’s really interesting and they may give you some advice to go to some places you would not have had before. So have an open mind to the culture and yeah.

Katherine: Love it. Thank you.

Nathalie: You’re welcome.

Katherine: Listener, thank you for tuning in to this episode of Unpacked Five Questions. In the show notes, you’ll find links to both of Natalie’s stories for Afar, as well as to her social media handle. Her Instagram is at Natalie_Mohadjer. Ready for more interviews with travel writers? Visit Afar.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We are @AfarMedia. If you enjoyed today’s exploration, I hope you’ll come back for more great travel stories. Subscribing always makes that easy, and be sure to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. It helps other travelers find it. This has been Unpacked Five Questions, a production of Afar Media. The podcast is produced by Aislyn Greene, Nikki Galteland, and Katherine LaGrave. This podcast is part of the Airwave Media Podcast Network. Visit airwavemedia.com to listen and subscribe to its other fine shows like Culture Kids and The Explorers Podcast.